We first ran Heroic Violet Hold. It went very smoothly. The only casualty was a mage that pulled agro. (That would so be me in normal situations. lol.) I got a minor upgrade with Moragg's Chestguard, and also the Design: Thick Autumn's Glow.
A little bit later, another group went to go do Heroic Nexus. While it wasn't the worst run ever, I now have a more complete understanding as to why healers can't keep up under geared and incompetent tanks. After a number of wipes (I wouldn't consider any of them my fault), we finally made it through. I did make it out with the Bands of Channeled Energy, but lost the roll for the Design: Deadly Monarch Topaz. And I lost the roll to the tank who also got the Flame-Bathed Steele Girdle and the Bulwark of the Noble Protector. Yeah, that's right... the tank got the 3 items from the last boss.
But at any rate... here's the issues I had with the tank. Tanks, pay attention here.
- Tanks need Defense rating. It's kind of a basic stat for you guys. For Wrath for Heroics, tanks need a minimum of 535. For raids, you need 540. Heck, even in BC you needed 490. Our tank had 305. I could see every time he got crit because his health would be fine, and then it would drop to almost dead.
- Know where your healer is and don't get too far ahead of him. Sure, it's our job to keep you alive, but if we stayed behind to look at loot, we're probably not ready for the next pull.
- And along those lines, if your healer doesn't have mana, you might want to wait until he does before you pull.
- Pull, don't charge. This warrior had a love of charging. He'd charge on almost every pull. Which would pull multiple mobs, which would cause wipes. Furthermore, charging at the mobs that are right before a boss has a high likelihood of pulling the boss. Trash mobs aren't meant to be pulled with the boss. I'm just saying.
- If other people that have more knowledge about the instance ask you to do something, you might want to listen. Maybe, just maybe they know what's going on.
12 comments:
I'm going to assume your tank had 405, not 305. 305 would mean he hadn't been be hit since level 60! :)
Good point, but I swear he said 305. Hmm... I'll have to remember his name and armory him.
Grats on getting your shammy to 80 :)
Bad tanks are a real nightmare, your experience would have had me complaining non-stop to my wife all night...
That is one of the first questions you should ask a tank. Except a bear tank. I dont think the whole defense thing counts for them. A responsible tank should know this anyways.
most of the 5-mans need multi tanking don't u think charging is better than pulling the mob to u?
I think you lost me, aaaaaaa. I don't get how multi-target tanking and not pulling. He was pulling multiple packs. Maybe that was the distinguishing word that makes a difference in my point. :)
I can see where charging every pull could be a problem. I think that knowing a fight and/or understanding the best way to pull are a requirement for a tank. Understanding LOS pulls or like you said just pulling a mob away from another mob or boss are a things that are going to make life a lot easier.
Any tanks who don't know these things by level 40 shouldn't be tanking. Well, aside from the defense cap, they aren't overly worried about that until they hit 70ish - 80.
I think it's damn near impossible, aside from perhaps a ranged DPS who doesn't solo, to have 305 defense at level 80. That would be the equivalent of a level 61 toon being capped. 405 would still be fairly well boggling unless they were in pure DPS gear.
Tanks should always have tabs on their healer. They're our bestest friend in the world for that run. Typically the healer is the one person I actually pay attention to between pulls. Pulling before a healer is ready is just a sign of a bad tank. And yes, pulling, not charging. That part actually made me laugh.
Sounds like someone should have stuck to their main DPS spec and left the tanking to the adults.
I'm guessing the Tank "maybe" had 405 Defense vs 305, because I would find that just hard to believe @ 80 this tank can only be at 305 Defense Rating. Because if I can remember right at 80 you cap out at 400 defense skilling up to lvl 80.
Dunno but this Tank charging into a Pack of mobs either sounds like someone who used to dpsing maybe and charging at stuff. These days playing Tank or Classes than can seem to be popular.
But that don't always mean many understand how to really play one properly. So I really have to wonder about a tank that's willing to take the risk with a group in Heroics and be at 405 defense possibly and not even remotely close to being uncrittable. 405 is a long way from 540 defense rating.
If the tank had his talents correct, he should be able to pull and still charge while in combat. Throw your weapon to pull closer to you, but charge before they get too close to generate enough rage to drop a thunderclap and get the group's attention.
The biggest problem a tank has is the dps classes that don't know how to control aggro and jump into a fight too quickly before the tank can generate enough rage to keep the mobs attention. Especially on multi-mob pulls where they start with an AOE spell at the beginning of the fight.
Maybe it was 305 defense rating vs 305 defense. Defense being the cumulative of your skill and rating after diminishing returns. Anyway just a thought as the above said having 305 defense is pretty much impossible
"The biggest problem a tank has is the dps classes that don't know how to control aggro and jump into a fight too quickly before the tank can generate enough rage to keep the mobs attention. Especially on multi-mob pulls where they start with an AOE spell at the beginning of the fight."
This was worth repeating.
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